David Winogrond |
Interview |
By Dave Peckett for
New
Gandy Dancer |
October 2003 |
How did you first begin playing drums all those years
ago?
Two things happened close to the same time period for me. First, I saw The Beatles
on Ed Sullivan. Yeah, I know that’s a common story. But it was an important
moment, in many ways. The second event for me was seeing “The
Gene Krupa Story” with Sal Mineo. That was very inspiring for
me. I started playing along with records with chop sticks on my school books.
I then got a Sears snare drum and 10” cymbal and built my first set a
little at a time from that. My first performance was a year later, for a talent
show. There I was with a snare, 10” cymbal, and I think I had added a
high hat at that point. And a 2nd snare, which I turned into a tom tom. The
lead guitarist was playing through his record player. The bass player didn’t
have a bass so he tuned a regular guitar down. We didn’t decide which
song to play till the last minute. As we were getting on stage, the lead guitarist
said, “’I’m a Man’ by The Yardbirds”. The rhythm
guitarist only heard “Byrds” so he was playing “Turn Turn
Turn” while we were playing “I’m a Man”. To make matters
worse, the band before us (who had a member in it who I’m still close
friends with, Jeff Peters. He mixed “Restless In L.A.”) Anyway…
they were a surf instro band. Very good, actually. The guy running the P.A.
thought we were an instro band too. So he turned off the vocal mic while we
played this mess!!! I’ll never understand why I continued playing after
that!!!
Did you do the rudimentary lessons -
paradiddles / ratamacues thing?
I took one semester of orchestra shortly after I started playing. I wanted to
play a drumset and was totally uninterested in learning orchestral drumming
with just the snare drum. I got a D grade. I barely passed the class. Right
from that point, I developed a theory that if I took any kind of lessons I’d
end up sounding like my teacher. I decided I was more interested in developing
my own style and was worried that lessons might interfere with that. So I decided
to be totally self taught and have stuck with that ever since. I think, at this
point, taking some lessons and improving my technique would probably be safe
and not a bad idea. But I still never bothered taking any lessons. I was in
an instro prog-rock band in the early 70’s called Graced
Lightning, in Chicago. I remember a drummer was complimenting me
on my paradiddles after one of our shows. I had to ask him what a paradiddle
was. That’s how I found out.
Are you conscious that rudiments play
a part in rock styles?
It’s hard to answer that, since I never learned the rudiments. I don’t
really know. I just never wanted to learn the same patterns everyone was learning
from their drum teachers.
Did you come from a musical family?
No. My dad bought me a record player and some classical records when I was five.
I was glued to it and didn’t want to do anything else. Shortly after that,
I discovered the radio and rock music and became obsessed. On my first day at
school at 6 years old, I freaked out. I wouldn’t calm down till they put
me in a room away from the kids with a radio tuned to a rock station.
A distant relative played harpsichord. Classical music. She was considered to
be a real authority on it. Blanche Winogron, without a “d” at the
end. But I hardly knew her.
How did your first drum kit come about?
As mentioned earlier, I started with the Sears stuff and pieced it together.
The next piece I got was a Ludwig snare drum, even though I already had the
Sears snare drum. For some stupid reason, I turned the perfectly good Ludwig
snare drum (instead of the Sears snare) into a tom tom. I then added a high
hat, some more cymbals and a 36” marching bass drum that was literally
so loud that it knocked the pictures off the wall of our neighbors hall.
Did you practice much and did you have
a drum hero?
I practiced around 3 hours a day for around seven years. When I moved out, after
high school, I no longer had a regular place to practice. This has continued
to be the case ever since. I don’t practice. Even with most band practices
over the last decade… for most of them I just play on drum pads. That
way, we can practice quietly in a living room and be able to talk over the music.
For me, band practice is mostly just for getting the song structure and arrangement
together.
As for drum heroes, I can just tell you drummers I’ve liked over the years.
They’ve been Keith Moon, Mitch Mitchell, Ginger Baker, B.J. Wilson, Guy
Evans, Elvin Jones, Max Roach, Robert Wyatt, Ringo, Mickey Hart, John Densmore,
Pete Thomas, Mo Tucker, Clive Bunker, Spencer Dryden, Dannie Richmond, John
Bonham, Nick Mason, Gene Krupa, Chris Cutler, Michael Giles, Joe Morello, Sandy
Nelson, Prince, Ronnie Bond, Chico Hamilton, Paul Whaley, Budgie, Thom Mooney,
Tony Williams, Dino Danelli and Jody Stephens. I guess my hero is Elvin Jones.
I’ve seen seven of his shows, including more than one per night. He’s
my hero because he defies age. He’s still amazing and he’s 75. I
have more Elvin Jones disks than anyone else in my collection. But the other
drummers I named were all very influential too.
What is your favourite Arrows' tune?
I can’t name just one. There’s too many, but I’ll try to name
some. I’d have to say, in no special order, “Demente”, “Energized”,
“The Toxic Terror”, “Kickback”, “Restless in L.A.”
(both versions), “Stick It!”, “Fast and Loose”. “Chopper”
and “Open Throttle” but not the alternative mixes. “James
Bond Theme/Goldfinger”, “Six-String Highway”. “Encounter”
(The two different studio versions. One is from “Arrow Dynamic Sounds
of” and the other is a Gearhead Magazine single). “Theme From The
Unknown” (both versions), “I
Had Too Much to Dream (Last Night)”. The live version of “Shape
of Things To Come”, “On The Surface”, and both versions of
“Missing Link”.
When did you join Davie Allan as an Arrow?
I did Missing Link December 23, 1987 but that was just a session. Years later,
Chris Ashford decided to put "Loud Loose and Savage" together, which
was a collection of what he had recorded of Davie up to that point, with various
people backing Davie up. I'm just on Missing Link on that album. That's when
Davie decided to start a new Arrows again to coincide with the release. The
last official Arrows went back to 1967. I got the call in August 1994, asking
me to join. I've been an Arrow longer than any other Arrow.
Do you have any specific way of tuning
drums?
I try lots of approaches and am actually fanatical about drum tuning. I do have
basic approaches but it’d probably be too boring to get into here. Let’s
just say… I have to have bottom heads on the toms and the kick drum has
to have a front head with no hole cut in it. I like a lot of boom and resonance.
I have slight dampening on the kick drum and no dampening on anything else.
I like drums to sound like drums.
Do you have any favourite memories of
the touring?
Touring with The
Knoxville Girls was cool. We liked them both musically and personally.
What are your memories of the European
tour of four years back?
I remember it was seven years ago. Way too long!!! One favorite memory was the
driver telling us that Fergal
Sharkey was in the audience, dancing, during our London gig. I was
a big Undertones
fan!!! Davie and I especially loved Amsterdam.
Do you have any other drummers coming
through in your family?
No.
What is the specification of your current
kit including cymbals?
Pieced together, like most of my sets. I have a huge Zildjian cymbal with a
beautiful sounding bell.
Have you ever had a bad drum kit?
Most of them. I’ve never had a great drum set.
Is there truly a difference between kits
like Premier or Pearl for
£1500 or so and Drum Workshop for up to £6000!
I’m the wrong person to ask. I’m not really into equipment. I’ve
played on Drum Workshop drumsets and they sound amazing!!! I also like their
initials.
So what is your favourite memory from
your career so far?
One thing that comes to mind is the first time I met Davie. Chris
Ashford, our old producer, called me one day and told me to meet
him at the E.M.I. Studio to record a track with him. I asked if we were going
to meet or rehearse first. He said, “No. It’s just a jam. Just go
there and do your thing”. Unfortunately, I had just gotten back from a
To Damascus
tour with a bad case of Bronchitis. I don’t remember why but, for some
reason, we didn’t reschedule the session. I went even though I was really
sick. I’m also allergic to cats. It triggers my asthma. It turned out
there were cats in the studio. Great! On top of the Bronchitis!!! So I met Davie
and set up my drums. He showed me the few changes but most of it was to be improvised.
We went through one take. I thought it was fine but Chris thought Davie hadn’t
warmed up yet. I then had the bright idea to suggest that the bass player, Charley
Appleton, improvise more. Bad idea! With Davie and I out in outer space, there
was no anchor. So we tossed that idea and tried it again. When we finished,
I said that had to be the final take because my asthma was too much for me to
play anymore. That track was “Missing Link”, which ended up on the
“Loud,
Loose and Savage” album. In spite of all the problems, that
was still a great memory just because it was the beginning of Davie and I working
together.
Also, Bruce and I had another band called SS-20
and were considered to be part of the Los Angeles Paisley Underground in the
early 80’s. We had an album out on Greg
Shaw’s Vox label. I’ve also played with Sylvia
Juncosa in To
Damascus. Sylvia and Tyra and I were a great combination and we worked
really well together. We made two albums. “Come To Your Senses”
was our best but it’s very difficult to find. Anyway… those were
all cool memories.
Can you tell us the background to the
Restless
In LA CD?
It happened the way most of our albums do. Davie makes these home demos where
he plays all the parts. Amazing demos, actually. They’d make for a real
interesting release someday. The drums are very simple drum machine. The bass
is keyboard bass. Drums and bass parts are simple and open to any changes. A
lot of the preparation is done individually, at home, just studying the demos.
We’ll do a few living room rehearsals where I play on drum pads, just
to figure out the song structure and go over arrangement ideas. Then we’ll
have a couple of rehearsals where we crank up the volume and I play a drumset.
Then we go in the studio and record. We tend to not dwell on things. Getting
things overly refined can kill the feel. We’re amazingly efficient. But
it takes a lot of individual preparation. Everyone already has a good idea of
the structure and how they want to approach it before we even go over it as
a band for the first time. Rehearsals for us are more like fine-tuning and dress
rehearsal. For me, the preparation and rehearsals are like creating the lines
in a coloring book. I figure once that’s worked out, I can go in the studio
and wing it and color it any way I want… as long as I stay in the lines.
Chris Ashford, our old producer, always used to complain that I never played
the same part twice. That actually isn’t true. There’s a fair amount
that is worked out. But there’s a lot that isn’t.
Any funny stories about the recording
sessions?
When Bruce was doing his trumpet overdub in Demente. He came in the control
room to listen to the playback. When he went back into the studio to try another
take, he said with a totally straight face, “Maybe I should try playing
more right notes”. Davie and I fell off our chairs in hysterics!!!
What's for the future for you?
As for Davie Allan and
The Arrows, we’ve already made a lot of progress on our next
album.
There’s also some side projects. Chris
Ashford, Davie’s ex-producer and an old friend of mine…
I’ve known him since 1975. He wants to produce a solo album of me. It’s
just in the talking stage but he’s totally serious. He wants it to be
a jazz album and I’m fine with that. I know that will put a lot of people
off but the kind of jazz I love and want to do is the mind bending stuff that
came out between roughly 1957 and 1968. The weird or noisy stuff, or the stuff
that sounded like psychedelic chamber music. Actually, jazz was psychedelic
long before rock was. Anyway… the tough part is going to be to find the
right sax player for what I want to do. No luck so far. I’d call Eric
Dolphy but he’s been dead for years. David
Jackson! If you’re out there! I’d love to make an album
with you!!! He was the sax player in Van
Der Graaf Generator.
Another thing in the future, besides Davie, of course… is I’m in
another band called Skooshny and helped start it in 1975. Bruce is also a member,
and has been all these years as well. We’re two thirds of both bands.
Skooshny
is a vocal/song band. Sort of a quirky version of The Kinks meet The Byrds,
I guess. The main singer/song writer is Mark
Breyer. It’s strictly a studio project. We’ve only done
one gig which was two songs at an Arthur
Lee benefit show. Davie got us that show. Both bands were on that
bill, along with a lot of other really good bands. Anyway… Skooshny
has three albums out but they’re very difficult to find. We’re planning
on releasing a compilation album on Vibro-Phonic’s
new Re-Vibe label early 2004. We hope to have decent distribution for it. It’ll
have three new songs, though it’ll all be new for most people. It’ll
also feature our version of a Davie Allan vocal song called “Angel With
a Devil’s Heart”. It was supposed to be his follow-up to “Blues’
Theme”, but it was never released. Great song!!! It’s ridiculous
that it was never released!!! Skooshny’s version of that song will also
come out on an album called "King
Fuzz - A Tribute To Davie Allan”, due out sometime in 2004.
Bruce and I also did another cut, “Mind Transferal”,
for the tribute album. It’s just the two of us and Drew Bennett’s
brief backwards voice. We called ourselves The Arrows for that track. I’ve
heard some of the songs that have been submitted for the Davie Tribute album.
Some great stuff!!! It should end up being a very cool collection!!!
Also… last but most… I hope Davie Allan and The Arrows get back
on the road with some decent touring. It’s been much too long!!!
Anyway… great questions!!! Most people don’t pay that much attention
to the drummer, so it’s nice to be noticed. Thank you very much!!!
Click photo for photo site.
Photography:
Justice Howard